Alumnus Bart Jansen: ‘It’s up to us legal philosophers to make sense of these times’
Legal philosopher Bart Jansen teaches at universities around the world. In an interview two years ago, he spoke about his professional fascination for dictators and wars. Since then, the world has undergone major changes. High time for a follow-up interview.
You previously explained your interest in legal philosophy as an interest in ‘everything that goes wrong really’. From a professional perspective, do you think we’re living in exciting times?
We’re definitely living in exciting times. As a legal philosopher, I’m rather in two minds about it. On the one hand, I’m at a loss for words. On the other hand, it’s up to us legal philosophers to make sense of these times. I sometimes wonder whether my field of expertise also shares this urgency. By this, I mean the fact that legal philosophy research often doesn’t respond to the urgency of our times. For instance, legal philosophers can get totally absorbed in a Hart-Dworkin debate on legal positivism. But, that’s of no interest to law students and the general population.
There are many legal philosophy courses in the Netherlands that stick to that kind of academic ‘nitpicking’, though our world is on fire. You see legal philosophy every day on TV, in the newspapers, on the streets and you feel it physically. It’s not good to focus on knowledge that never goes beyond academia’s ivory tower. All that navel-gazing and not taking an interest in the ‘big bad world’ outside is a real shame.
You live in the United States. With all the political turmoil going on there, is your position as an academic still tenable?
Up to now, I haven’t had any problems with things like extending my visa. But, of course, there is a ‘new sheriff in town’ and as an academic, I’m not on his list of favourite people. The atmosphere at New York University, where I’m working, is extremely bleak – to put it mildly.
Two years ago, you said you found law alone way too dull. What did you do when you were a student to push yourself?
From a young age, I wanted to go to art college and I was always working on creating some form of art. At one point when I was a law student, I began to find my courses boring and too dry. So, I started to take elective courses like philosophy of art. I also took a year off from Law and studied at the Academy of Art in The Hague. I got to know completely different types of students who had a different view on humanity. That first felt like a breath of fresh air, but after a while I became rather bored with the self-proclaimed geniuses clinging to a quote from Nietzsche.
Having taken various detours, I eventually returned to the law faculty and regained my appetite for my studies. It was already clear that I was most interested in legal philosophy, but a childlike thought prevailed that I wanted to be a lawyer, because that’s what everyone did. After a few internships during my master's, I soon discovered that the legal profession definitely wasn’t for me.
You eventually opted for an academic career. Why?
Working at a university appealed to me because I like teaching and I’d enjoyed writing my theses. University life offers great freedom. When I wasn’t teaching, I could visit my better half in Paris. I can work on my research anywhere. I’m still working, even if I’m lying in the sun reading Hegel or Heidegger.
Do you still enjoy teaching and doing research?
Definitely! I can keep going like this for years. I do need a change every now and then, so I don’t like staying in one place for too long – at least, not yet. Right now, I want to work in lots of different places and experience other cultures. For the time being, I’m managing to do that by planning ahead and closely monitoring the time I have for research.
Looking back on your career and student days, would you change anything knowing what you know today?
I would have started something else besides law sooner. I’d always wanted to do philosophy on the side, but I was so taken up with leaving home and my busy social life that it just didn't materialise. I only discovered much later on how wonderful studying can be. My life in Leiden basically revolved around my house, the KOG, the pub L'Espérance and my student association. Everything was pretty much on my doorstep. In hindsight, studying abroad for a while would have been good for me. But I think I’ve caught up on that experience now. I think the most important thing for students is to develop themselves as broadly as possible.